1 10 188 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sophie Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Chaney Yelverton Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Sophie: Hi, I'm Sophie Mohs. Um, I'm here today with Cheney Yelverton. Um, and we are in the South Bronx, um, for the melrose oral history project, a collaboration between Nyu displaced urban histories and whedco. Um, Jenny, would you like to spell your name out? Chaney: [inaudible]. C. H. A. N. E. Y. Last name Yelverton. Y. E. L. V. E. R. T. O. N. Sophie: Thank you. Um, so just to begin, tell me a little bit about, um, where you grew up. Chaney: Um, I moved here in 1980 when I was four years old. I grew up here. All my life on is on in this building. And what does that experience been like? They've been pretty good. It's gotten rough over say the 90s. You got kind of rough, but my childhood was great and it's getting better now cause due to gentrification and the mayor's plan to build new homes. So the areas building back up. So it was cut close to transportation, close to the court house, close to anything that you need. So that's good. And can you describe how this neighborhood was for you as a child? Commute scribed the melrose of as a child. It was great. This was new. This was built in 1980. It be like the first people had, so it was a new development. This is actually the newest development in the city and what do I believe in this? This can you, this is more air erase. This is the newest development in the city. So it was good when we moved then, then the children got grown. Um, I think that the drugs crack epidemic, which a lot of crime, a lot of buildings got left abandoned. So it was rough. And now, now in the last five years they've been building, rebuilding it back. So it's getting back to where it's supposed to be. Sophie: And what was it like living through that time of the crack epidemic? Chaney: MMM. If you, if you weren't from here then it was probably kind of rough. Is certain places like I'm here, Jackson, of course the street, my roles as opposed sheet. Some people couldn't go over there. So, um, the way that public schools are structured, children go to school by the zones. So whether you wanted to go to that school or not, you had to. So I was fortunate. I went to Catholic school so I didn't have to go to public school. So I didn't have, I didn't have most of the temptation, the problems that all the children, I was going lucky. Sophie: How was that experience for people to go to school in Melrose? Chaney: yeah. Um, well we share the school like okay, and you were from this area then everybody in this area went to one school, one elementary school, one junior high or high school. So if you ended up with a problem when you're 15, it's going to carry you all the way cause you're gonna see the same people so that people end up dropping out of school. And so, mmm. A lot of people turn to crime early. Lot of like females had children early. And as a result, there's a lot of young, there's a lot of babies running around with broken from broken homes because it was, it was a result of childhood. Sophie: Um, can you describe what this community is like? What is it like to grow up in a community where, um, like this one? Chaney: Um, it's great. Like, um, everybody knows each other, so if you use it positively then is great, but then everybody knows each other. So if there's negativity and it's not good for you, you can't really commit a crime. Like most of the people had been living in 30th, so I wouldn't be able to rob you and you wouldn't know your parents? No, my parents. So it was, it's actually fun. It's a good place to live. Um, like I said, with close to Yankee stadium, close to the courthouse, one of the things that people come from other parents and say, you see we have our hand. So it was good. It's good. Growing up in learning communities, other communities that you say you're a part of the queer communities, no sense of belonging to you say to the more senior area, the melrose section. Um, we have a claim on section, which is like Webster Avenue. The grand concourse, because we were like in the middle of everything. So we kind of fit in with everybody. Sophie: And can you describe your job or jobs you've had? Chaney: Well, I'm a custodian in a school and I've been there for about 16 years now. So, and then this is my volunteer job as a resident association president. This is actually more work than my real job. Sophie: And why do you choose to have both the jobs? Chaney: One pays the bills, the other, my community. So it kind of balances out. It's a lot of issues here. Like right now we have a gas leak. You don't have gas so that you have a place in the gas lines. There was supposed to take six months but they did it in a month because I complained. So get get things done. Sophie: As the association president, what if, what is your role to I guess, bridge the gap between the residents and the management? Chaney: A lot of um, problems. Resident hand can't be. So, um, that, that the system in nature has, is flawed. So you ever repay, you put in a ticket, it takes months to get fixed as opposed to the people that actually fixed him. I meet him every day at meetings with them once a week. I actually have one, a six o'clock so I could get this stuff fixed and get things done. So it was like just a kind of balance for the residents. Sophie: You describe a little bit more like what the relationship between management and residents is. Chaney: Um, it's usually rocky because when you're a resident or anytime you go see management is when you have a problem. So there's a process. You have to put it in a work order if you need it, you need a piece, they have to order the peaks. But if it's your apartment, you don't want to hear that. You want it fixed right away. So it's always a rocky relationship. But with us, we meet with them all the time. We understand the process. Then we meet with the tenants and we explained the process to them. Sometimes we invite management to them, to the meetings. Sometimes we don't, but we get, we get to the tenants. They don't understand us before they understand someone that doesn't live here. Sophie: What does the organization have more senior areas? Housing is, do people own their apartments? Do they rent their apartments to rent? Chaney: Um, in the beginning it was 30% of your income. So based on what you mean, um, due to the, the crisis that nature in financially they're switching to, some people were paying market rate, some people, and before it was a ceiling, like depending on what point when you lived in, there was a maximum rent you could pay. They took the maximum mode. So if you make $100,000 a year, you pay 30% of them. So some people had paid $1,000, $2,000. There's some people where they pay $100 for the same appointment. So if you pay $2,000, you would expect better quality then the person that's paying $200 but it doesn't work like that. So that's another problem that we run into. So it's forcing people out like it's cheaper. Some people would think it's cheaper than buying a house, but we don't, we don't pay con Edison. So everybody else, you know, pay corner lesson in life, you know, pay $1,000 a month ago. On us and it doesn't balance out. So it's, it's kind of rough. Sophie: Besides the cost issues, do you see that people want to stay here? Chaney: Yeah, like this development, like I said, it's the newest development in the city. Our apartments are humongous, so nobody really wants to leave. But the service, the quality of service, it's so horrible that it kind of forces you. Like what you just heard was it? The Metro north is on there, so the building is constantly shifting. So pipes leak, things break. This built, it wasn't built originally for nature. It was built, it's supposed to be a co op or condo. Then they ran out of money and he sold it to the city. So the city really doesn't know. They didn't build it. So you don't really know how to fix it. So he fixed things as they break. So like in hair there's no basement. The train stations on there. So all the buildings, pipes in the ceiling, all the bathrooms or kitchens, everything is in a sailor. So if anybody in this building leaks ends up in here. If the pipe is so Niger doesn't know how to fix it, they just come in. It was a pipe will be changing and that's just the way it is. Sophie: Can you elaborate on some of the problems? Nature's spacing. Chaney: Um, they had a big deficits that they don't have enough money to maintain all these buildings. A lot of our own developments of forming apart any new boilers, new roofs, elevators. And then if you have 70% of the residents paying $200 on low rent is not enough money coming in to fix the problem. So, um, that's just lies. But they also had, they had a problem of mismanagement of money. There's a lot of executives and get paid hundreds hundred thousand dollars a year. So if you cut those salaries, there'll be more money for repairs. But they don't think like that. It's a lot of mismanagement of material. They buy stuff, they don't use it, they buy it, they let me go home, let a sport. So it's just, it was mismanagement in the past, that border to the point now where it can't be managed. It needs to be redone from him from the beginning. Sophie: Um, and can you describe a little back to how the prices in this building are these buildings have been changing? Do you see any effect with like among residents, between residents? Chaney: People don't work. There's not a problem because if you were going to raise, your rent is to go up and you lose your job in the restaurant to go there. What does the people that are time they're expecting you to pay? Like if you look behind you, there's a fee scale right then when I born. So that base that, that takes you salary and amount of rooms you have and gives you a market rate. So if you're retired and you've been paying $500 for 30 years, and he said, oh, now we changed it, you've got to pay it thousand, it kind of throws you off. So you people on medication, you have to pay copayments for medication. So you have to take money from that. So it's, there's no stability. They change in the rules as they go along to try to get the soap out of the whole lot then, but it's not on benefiting the residence. Sophie: And can you describe a little more of the effects this like price inflation in the city has had on this community specifically or South Bronx in general as you see it. Chaney: The affects are maybe with the seniors people they'll go without what they need to try to pay the rent. Some people that have copayments going to pay $50 every time they go to a doctor or to get medicine. Some people will go without the medicine. He said he can't afford it. People with families, with some people have three, four, five children. They'd go without feeding their children what they need to eat and go buy junk food and fast food to sub paying the rent. Some people that don't work, um, they actually live in better than the people that work because social services paying their rent, they get food stamps, things like that as opposed to other people to actually budget what they, what they, what they spend. So the city is not taking account, none of that. It just taking a salary, taking 30% and charge him. They don't take into consideration. Some people be general support. Some people have gone to, you know, they don't take any of that into consideration. They just, the rent, the rent is going up in the quality of service is going down. Sophie: So what I hear you saying is there's kind of a lack of person to person case by case basis. Um, back to you two more. Why did you, why do you want to help your community? Chaney: Because I live in, I'm not, I don't want to move. So it's affected, it affects me. If I allow it to affect me, I don't know if I'll lose my job, I don't know. You know, I'm going to become an Ldt is going to affect me. So if I can be part of the change to make it fair and I want to do that. And are there other people on your management team or your association? Yeah, team. It's as far more people, um, to wearing it. That's my whole ball. And right then. And Sophie: what is that dynamic like? What is it like to have this community of people who Chaney: wanted improve quality of life in works? Um, well when my board, the old, the old president was the president for 30 years, she had a whole way of doing it. My way is where our unit, like I, everybody and my boy lives in a separate building. So everybody go report the problems and they're building it and we get them fixed collectively. Like nobody's the boss. We meet and make decisions and then we make things happen and that's how we doing. Sophie: Um, and so what are some of the everyday problems or larger problems at hand here? Chaney: Everything. Poems here. Um, uh, like right now this building the compact and is out. So when people would have to bring their garbage on side, which means the workers have to pick up more garbage. Um, everyday problems. The roof is old. So people that live on the top floor, when it rains, it rains in their, in their apartment. Regular repairs. If you may, it's April. If you put in a ticket for repair, it might, you might get an deed in July because they're so backed up. So small problems like if you lived elsewhere, that wouldn't be a big deal or a big deal. And so, um, there's no accountability not following the rules for tenants and employees. Like this whole gas leak as a of someone's trying to mount a TV on the wall and drilling through to gasoline, the person's still lives in here and there's 225 appointments without gas and they haven't done anything to the person. So we're all suffering for one person. It's against the law to even drill and you're warm and you at least you're not supposed to the feast to build it. But they won't do anything to him. I had him would've caught fire, blew up, then they would act like they kid. So it was like, and we, the tenants don't care. Then management won't camp because they go home every day at four 30. They ain't going. So that's the way I look at it. Sophie: what was it like growing up and living here still like we can you and your family? Chaney: For me it was, for me it was great at it. I have a big family, I still have the same friends from when I was a kid, you know, and this is basically like what I know now. I went to school in this area. I went to high school and at home, but I was, you know, I did everything in this area. So for me and was good for under that, took the other route, then it turned out, I mean, and that's for every area, you know, it was people that took the wrong route and it turned out harm or for me it was great. Sophie: Can you describe your educational experience in, you said Harlem? Chaney: Well, I went to, I went to camp elementary school from kindergarten to eighth grade in the Bronx. I'm on 55th street. I went to high school and, um, Raines high school and it was on hundred and 24th and Linux. It is now a charter school. Nicole, it's now a charter school. And, um, basically, um, oh, I have a bachelor's degree in education, but it doesn't, I don't use it. I think I'll make more money than a teacher. So it doesn't bother me. One on education can help you if you make lot. A lot of people want to know you went to school and found a job outside. They feel, you know, like a lot of people want new on police officers or correction officers. They went to school and be social workers took the test, they passed and they did, they join for 20 years and 91 time. So a lot of people went to school because our parents that was pointed the plane, you had to go to school and then you did it and you were groaning and then make your own decision. So, um, a lot of people had don't make it the high school. So And the quality of school and head is horrible. Like the public school system here is harmful that the schools are and boom, the books aren't, the furniture is horrible. So if you're forced, if that's your only option, you're probably not going to succeed. Like I was fortunate enough to go to Catholic school for 13 years, so I knew the option. I know some people don't. Went to Catholic school then still turned out bad, but it was their choice. So education is important to me, but in this community, like education's not everything because most people are taught to go to school so they can run it so they could move out and do better. Some people go to school, but they sell $100,000 in debt. They move out and go buy a house and put, they sell 300,000 more than that. Then they end that forever. So you really didn't accomplish anything for yourself. So for me, it's, I like it here. I'm going to stay here as long as I can. I'm going to help the community as much as I can. Sophie: Have you ever lived anywhere else? Chaney: Um, no. Sophie: What is it about this community? But I was just the bronx that makes you want to stay if, if you live in Manhattan, everybody says, Oh, like I want to go to Yankee stadium. I guess the block, you know, if you had to go to court, the causes, right then you had to go shopping. There's one 61st. He used to be a lot of stores in one six one there's a movie theater right there isn't more 49th. There's a whole shopping area, the grand concourse, the post off the main post office and everything is here. There's um, if you don't want to go with this host, those community college right there on one 49th days, Metropolitan College Graduate School and in College in New Rochelle is on 49. They just put the Rico college right there in one six month. So it was like this is the central area for everything. If you lived anywhere else in the bronx and we wouldn't get a city job or stay, John, you probably get ended up working on right here because every city agency is right here. So you probably ended up back here anyway. The trains are here, all the buses, all the trains. So it's, there's no reason for me to move unless you're gonna unless you're moving away or you're running from something, like there's no reason for me to move. Sophie: Is Your family still here? Chaney: Not In this area, but they still live in the bronx. Sophie: Did you live in the same apartment as you? Chaney: no, I actually, um, downsides, I grew up in a four bedroom apartment, so I downsize to go. And do you live on your own? Yes. Sophie: Besides the access to shopping and services, as you say, is there something, the fee thing that like defines the culture of the Bronx or your experience? Chaney: Oh, you look into a lot of things they've seen that the bronx was, there were, you know, like we had things stolen like say like hip hop, music breathed in sin, um, graffiti, you know, everything that defines basically New York City. And it kind of started here. And if you look, um, I look around now, they, um, I see a lot of tour buses coming now. I asked the people they're doing tours on the Bronx, like I've been here. So it's like to us is not special, but to other people, they're coming in and trying to learn. People Watch movies, um, for the patchy and it's about the old, uh, the 42nd precinct that's down the block. Um, so I guess there's a lot of history here. And to me I'm, I just, I just like living with hip hop culture or graffiti culture anyway. Part of your upbringing. Um, the music was graffiti. I never, I never did it. Um, my older brothers did. Um, I think by the time I was here it was kind of faded out. I think people used to like write on trainings and stuff and um, they said like the, to train on one 49, it used to be outside before it was an l train. So I wasn't born to see that the trains ran and tunnel is by the time I was born. So I need the hip hop culture. We still, it's still part of them, but not the graffiti. like break dancing and partying, all that, that's part of our coaching him. Sophie: so what, what is a community like on the weekends or you save the partying and the parties and the coming together is part of the experience? Chaney: Well, I'm 40 now, so when I was in my twenties they were parties, clubs, but now everybody's old. Everybody's children. Well, I'm actually trying to elite coming. Most of my friends have children as 2021 my daughter's 12 so the children are grown. Pit Children are going to parties and going to college and so on. Now everybody's pretty relaxed, but the point is seeing it got kind of, I guess it was saint like dangerous and then dealing with all the problems with police these days is not really safe to be out at night. Can you speak at all to the relationship between this community specifically and law enforcement? I think that law enforcement, they're trained to treat these residents different. Trained to antagonize people. They caused more problems in the beginning. I believe that they need it. I have children, please, I need it. But then I needed to, they'll come here and say, hey, you shouldn't be sitting on a bench is the bench team. You shouldn't play basketball and in basketball, why is it thing? So those are the type of things that can doing to antagonize people because they don't want to be here to do the job. So they think of nobody's outside. Then they don't really have to work, but they don't even realize like they work for us. So when you have people like me and like Mr bomber that explained to them what their job actually is, they kind of bond with them. But that's what we're here for because if I want mind told him to be able to play outside, she needs to know how rains and the police need to know the jobs. You, there are certain things you can do. Children outside and senior citizens are outside. Some people drink, some people smoke. That's a crown. If you want to bond with them on the name, but they don't like bothering criminals. They around the bundle. Normally people give all tickets and making life miserable because most of their lines in mission bay, you have low paying jobs and they're miserable. So they come in these communities and trying to make us miserable. So like that's kind of the other half of our Jones think we fight against them, which you shouldn't have to do. You shouldn't have to fight against the police. They come in, they make up rules, your make up lies. They may go 4 cents and then some people believe that the first thing they do, if they come in and say, let me see. Yeah, the, we had a couple of months back, we had the New York civil liberties. They came in and did it for about two weeks. They were here doing the survey for the community. Know your rights. The first thing he told us, you don't even have that in New York in the ship going on a plane when you're driving a car. But the police won't tell you that. The first thing he did was say if you want it one, we were going to take you in. So when we have workshops like that, they were upset because they don't want people to know name rights. So I feel it's kind of my obligation to let the community know these things because 90% of people don't even know that they thought it was illegal to walk around without a Hyundai. So that's the things that um, but the relationship is getting better with the police is once they know, you know, your rain, sleet come to treat you different. So it's getting better. Sophie: do you see any solutions to keep improving that relationship? Chaney: I think the solution is you just got, it has to be asked to be consistent. The police or like they're always going to change. Like you can meet one captain this year, he does a good job, he's going to get a promotion so he's not going to beat it. So the next captain you have to do the same thing because they're trained to do what they do and we live at you, not, you can't come in on neighborhood, tell us, well we are going to do so this is what they're trained to do. Come in and control these people. They do them in any name. So if you allow them to do it, like they weren't going like, like say like for no. Huh? They think they think that the police don't Moan and tell him what to do it good because the community doesn't allow. So if we allow them to do it, they'll continue to do it. But we just fight the fight. You know, we, we even work with them, we plan events with them and trying to work with them the best we can. But then you have, the other issue is actually try me, she was telling times that we need the police so you can't have a bad relationship with them and then need them good. They will be just come late. So you know, we just work with them and we don't work for the solution and hopefully get better. It was not just here, it's the whole city like in the old country, Lisa Kinda hundred controls. So you just got to work for it. Sophie: does your daughter live in this community too? And do you see difference in the way she's growing up here in the way you grew up here? Chaney: not really. She the same wash. She has a scene like she's 12. She has the same friends. Um, yeah know I have a big family. My mom has a big family, so it's like she doesn't really need friends because our families are so large. Like I have tons of nephews and nieces and so it's kind of like my guy wasn't kind of sheltered. So until she's a teenager, 1516 she could experience things for herself. She probably will. She has no clue what was going on. Sophie: And does she go to the same Catholic school? Chaney: No, she asked me. She's in a charter school. They ain't gone see you for that now. Like they didn't have shown us from Poland School, Catholic Catholic schools. They actually orders now John at school. So she's in a good old girls trying school. So pretty good. Can you speak Sophie: to what charter schools are like, how they are better than regular public school with the Catholic schools too? Chaney: Shawna, John [inaudible]. To me, just more structure. Like my daughter's in an all girls school, so it's, it's and it's inside a public school. So you see the difference between high school and in the reading public school children like this. Wait, no. It's like the police didn't like the school safety officers sitting there and telling them what to do. So then today experiencing this from a chair. Some want, my daughter's school was different than the old girls. They have full time a family work is on the table program all the time. The community activity thing going on trips, they go to museums, they won't college tours and ready things like that. So is she's being exposed to different things. Public schools just because it's me and the tour, they just have to read it and teachers don't want to be there that people don't want to meet it. I, I don't agree with punishment. When you have to have cops in school, then there's already a problem. We need cops for the fifth graders then isn't ready issue. I wouldn't want to send my children to school. Then you had to go through the metal detector. So charter school zone, to me it is a better standard there in the public school. Sophie: Um, earlier you mentioned gentrification. Can you speak to how that effects this neighborhood? Chaney: Um, for me it's a positive because new people come in, all the new things come up, new stores will come on in the rest of the hospital, come on, the businesses would come. But for other people that's not used to it, they feel threatened. So, and then it goes both ways because there's black people that never live with white people. They feel threatened. But white people will never live in black. They felt bad when we all have to live here together and we live in the same building, we're going to have the same exact issue. So for us to be threatened by each other stupid. But um, it's community with hundreds of abandoned buildings that weren't being since I was a channel empty since I was in shower. They're all being built on. So to me it doesn't make sense to put more of the same people in the same condition, in the same area. If you want to fix it, you have to do something to fix it. So I feel if you put different people in, they used to live a different way, then maybe they can help with this community. That's just my team. Other people look at the rising price of this and a rising price and I mean it doesn't life. Sophie: elaborate a little bit more on the relationship between people who are not from the South Bronx who are now here and people who have lived there their whole lives. Chaney: People that have lived here their whole life. It's, some people are, they never lie to people. I might've went to the hundred 25th street, you know, but they never in Brooklyn, I've been the queen. It was never been to Florida, you know? So this is only know. They see say a white man coming to the building. They might get always a cop or they never would think he actually, we're moving. You will never think that they will build a new building. We knew it was an empty lot. The person that's moving in the building and know you don't know what was there. So people look at you strange. Like if you were to move in, people will look at you strange. Like why are you moving? You don't know. You just know it was an empty apartment. It's a new building. You saw it online, you're applying and you're going to pick. You live as close to the train and you get to work. You can get, that's all you worry about. But the people that live in poverty only ninth they wondering like why does she hit, you know, you go to work, you go to school and he's like, oh she thinks she's better than us. Well if you move from a better way of living where people didn't go, they go home and out the window. People didn't mess up the hallway and you said something to your neighbor like, hey, you shouldn't do this. And one of my, I near the enemy. So that's the, the issue is because when you come to New York is expensive, so everybody is struggling the same way, but people don't see them. Do we think if you got to wait Joan, and you make $60,000 a year, that was not enough to live in New York. I mean you might know that, but somebody that never worked a day in a lane, they have no clue. Some people will never worked. Some people get pain. Why did government, some people get food stamps and people get free jam. Kia. Some people with, um, special needs children, they get a bus to pick them up from school, from home and bring them back. They have no worries in the world. So if you come around and you make 40,000 and they think you're rich. So the problem is like everybody needs to be educated and people need to be more than first. Like some people don't travel so they don't only know is New York, they don't know the cost of living anywhere else. Not even man. So if you live in Manhattan, you know, I expensive man. So you moved here, they finger, oh, she came from and so she hasn't had the money. And as that's what the issue is here. Like nobody is worse than anybody downtown, but it's the way people look at each other. I perceive each other. You describe that a little bit more. because like say you, if you lived in the upper class, um, setting, then all you see maybe you look at the news and you see like the South Bronx from uc like crime. Like somebody got shot, somebody got shot and the village today somebody got shot in queens and when he got shot at with, but when you look at the new was just seemed like all the melrose section, somebody gonna kill. So if you had the movie, you automatically being like, we're Mr Moving. You're automatically making, you had to get on an elevator, you would be scared. So it just, to me it just shouldn't be like that. Sophie: What is the perception that everyone has of each other? Chaney: The reason why we can't get along, like everybody just looked at each other like she has the same phone and we'll all be fine. Cause if I'm scared of you and you skating me, eventually something's going to happen. And that's why everything is, the world is so valid town, everybody knows everybody's afraid to live with each other. Sophie: And do you think that that condition is the same as it was as a child whereas? Chaney: no. Because as a child, everybody that was here, it was just hit. They were no strangers and why he came to visit and they make, there was nobody move it. There was no new buildings, no mind now the last say five years that you've been building things. So people knew people who have been coming in and now the mayor has, um, a plan to stop homelessness. So a certain amount of all those appointments go to people that's in shelters. So, um, it's like a lot of those people would have different issues. So they are coming in and you have to deal with that. So, um, I like, I don't really know how, what the solution to the problem would be, but I think that people have to be more open to change. Sophie: How do you think you like encourage that open? Chaney: It has to be education. You can't, like they wouldn't tell you like, hey, you had to live here to finish school. Like they can't just ship. You hit like, you know, like they have to explain to you because you don't, your mindset is going to think different when you going, like say they tell you when you're going to go to 30, 71 you, you google that. You say, oh, somebody got shot. Then why do I want to live there? So like when I'm, when I moved to a small apartment, um, and look at the articles are all some money. I live on the second floor, the cops kill somebody on the second floor. I mean the guy tried to shoot a cop. I mean he was, but you don't look at it like that. You're like, oh, it's dangerous. But it happens everywhere. So it's like education. People have to be educated because ignorance isn't like every like people blonde it, they see what they want to see. So I think education, like people would have to kind of be reprogrammed to live with each other because everybody has been so segregated for so long that people would have to be reprogrammed to, to liberty chunk. Sophie: You mentioned de Blasio's plan. What does, how do you see that going? Chaney: It's going, it's going because nobody has a choice. Like it's like think seven out of 10 appointments go to doe. I mean it goes to the homeless, but a lot of homeless people have mental illnesses that are not being looked into. So you putting mentally ill person next door to you. Then what happens the day they don't take any medication. So that's, I think everybody deserves to live somewhere. You shouldn't live in a shelter for three or four like what's your family? Everybody deserves an appointment and then I don't believe that you should build a building just for people out of the shelter because then it's just another shelter. So I think that people need to be integrated into society, but they need to be monitored. Like this still needs more social work, any social work to go with that and things like that. Home visits with them. The plan is a good plan, but then there are people that want to be homeless. So it's a plan that is never going to stop because there's always going to be homelessness. Some people rather be homeless than go to a shelter. So it was a, it's a never ending plan. Sophie: What I hear you saying is that the shelters are kind of, um, that one has to go to the shelters before they can find this more permanent housing. Chaney: Right. Like, um, safe friends like domestic violence. Um, your husband beat, you get a police report, they were moving from the house. You seem to a shelter, like you might get up home at first because you're preying on me. Um, you kind of bypass question. So basically I think that the research is done. This area is a great area. It's a lot of history. It needs to be bought back. The history needs to be bought back and talk to everyone. And, um, once that is done, the understanding of Ba and, um, people being able to live more comfortably. Yeah. But, um, Sophie: I think that's about it. Any, any other issue? You mentioned education being really important. Um, it's improving life lives in the south bronx and around the city. Um, any of the other issues or strengths that you see in the South Bronx? Chaney: I don't, I don't see any, any issues because it's getting stronger and their strengths on that. It is becoming more diverse and it can only get better from it. Diversity is a great thing. Um, then you never thought you had with chipotle. One. One says one starbucks, so it was like diversity is good, but people have to embrace it and some people rather than to be angry if it's poor, some people are going to be angry. Rich people move in it. So we got to be able to accept whatever comes and deal with. Sophie: Thank you. If there's anything else here, we can just hang out for a minute and if you think of anything, Chaney: um, please share. What can I ask? What do you think about it? Sophie: well, honestly, before being in this course, I had not had a chance to visit the Bronx, so, Chaney: so that's what I'm saying. So also, so if you never visited the bronze and they said, hey, you got to live at 30 71 what was your thinking? Sophie: I would just, I would know where I was going. I mean this, this course is what that's been our focus is really is, you know, learning the history right before we even got to visit or even got to meet our collaborators for this, this project is the fact that we really needed to understand the place that we wanted to interact with you on that. That's the issue. Chaney: Ciao. I went on vacations and travel when we went to Manhattan every weekend and things like that. There are people that are 40 years old, they've never been in Brooklyn, never been to queens. And there had been standing down there, there've been jersey. So they're scared of change. So that's something that we have to, and we have to change, educate people so that youth can kind of go back to living, to grown up the way. Sophie: And why do you think people are so scared of it? Chaney: Not Scared. If you don't have to leave late, if you don't have to, there's no reason for you to leave. Like if there's anything that you actually need or want, like to survive is ringing. Like even people that are going to public assistance. Um, did you walk past the chipotle thing? And I don't think I did, but if you could come run almost as one. It was a whole building that was all Hra, like food stamps, welfare, child support, parole, everything was right in one building. So if you live there, any problem that arose, it was right here doing shopping all around here, man, I have to leave. Thank you. Stadium is there. If you got in trouble when you had to go to court, the court house is right there. So you really didn't have to leave to do anything. And like I said, schools, the zones coming is right behind the building. So you didn't have to go anywhere. So some people just adapted and state, so it was just the way it is. No, thank you. A pleasure speaking with you. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Chaney Yelverton Interview Transcript Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Anna Marx Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Wanda McAllister Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Anna: This is Anna Marx recording an Oral History from Wanda McAllister on *Displaced Urban Histories with Becky Amato Spring 2017. I’m gonna start by asking Wanda “where is home?”, and she’s gonna get- cool! Wanda: Hi, Alright, well home for me is Bronx, actually I was born in Brooklyn, I transfered over here to the Bronx when I was 2 years old. So, from two years old to now hehe, I’ve been a resident of Bronx. Um, South Bronx actually. When my family came here, we moved into the projects, the Morrisania projects in the Bronx, and ever since that, that’s been home for me. That’s where I went for pre-k, middle school, highschool. From there I did some traveling, not out of the country, but I did a lot of traveling. Not that much because I am a Bronx girl. I got normal experience, you know, some of my experience was great, some not so great, but um, I would not, eventually I wouldn’t wanna relocate but always new york. New york is my home to me. I graduated High school at Walton high school. I became a mom at the early age, at the age of 16 I became a mom. Still ya know, living with my mom, my mom ya know helped me along when I became a mom. I had another sister that became pregnant at the same time so we were young. And um with the help of my mom, God bless her because she’s gone right now, but um, she helped me along and I was able to continue school because I got pregnant when I was still in Highschool. So my mom said “ok I’ll keep the baby” she would keep the child while she allowed me to continue to go to school. It was, I had some rough times but with the help of my Mom and certainly some experiences that I gained on my own and I turned, I think I turned out pretty well. Anna: 2:33 Um so can you talk a little bit about, like your experiences with this neighborhood? Like if there’s anything specific or particular that sorta, you feel really ties you here other than being here for so long, and sorta what that is like? Wanda: Sure, so like I said I grew up in the projects in the Murray senior area. Um, and the projects where we grew up at, it was family oriented, ya know, so each parent looked doubtful of each parents child. And it was not, in terms of crying, there were no crying. Like I said, each parent chipped in and raised each other’s child. It was free, we hung out in the front of the building where there was jumping rope, hopscotch, and all that other stuff. And it’s totally different now. Back then, like I said, everybody was together, we knew what time to come home, and you know, at our friends house if we were hungry, parents fed each other’s parents, and there was no fighting. I see its huge, in terms of crime. I didn’t know about crime at a young age, until I became a teen or my late twenties. Drugs was not a thing in our area, nobody that I grew up with. And that building that I grew up in, it was a 16 story building. So could you imagine the children, the neighborhood was different, we would sit on the bench. Now these days when I go back to the neighborhood, basically everyone’s gone, there’s a whole new set of people there. Every now and then I go back because that’s my roots, I drive by and I reminisce about “ok this is where I used to play at the park, this is where I did this and that”. I wasn’t afraid, nobodies afraid. Everybody always looked out for each other. I drive back cautiously now. But even though I drive back cautiously, if I had to go back there, because I was raised in the area where there was a lot of projects and stuff like that, I’m not afraid. if I had to go in there, I would go in there. If I had to go in any projects inside the bronx, I don’t know about outside the bronx *laughs, but in the bronx I could walk through, I won’t have fear because i’m used to it. The only thing i’ll probably have a little fear is the elevators because I lived on the first floor my whole life and I never had to experience the elevators. Other than that- my sister still lives in the area so I go back and I visit her and a little bit of people that’s still there, I see them “oh how you doing” I stop we talk and I reminisce and a lot of people that moved away are still close. So we’re talking once a year when there’s a something in clairmont village. So once a year during the summer time we all meet up where the people move out of the state, we all come back and we back in the neighborhood. And we do a cookout and fellowship and we just reminisce and it’s great. Anna: 6:29 So can you tell me a little bit about some of the people that you’re still in touch with? Wanda: Ok, when we grew up at some point, people ran stores, you know. And before people ran stores, there were people who were still there that unfortunately got into the drug situation. Some people came into crime, and some people even died. The people that- I ran into some people that I’m still close with, are still on drugs. I don’t discriminate. I remember them from when we grew up as kids and i’m talking about literally 4 or 5 years old. I grew up with these people and so um I run into them sometimes and I do a lot of counseling since I was close to a lot of them and as you can see i’m very talkative. I’m a helper I’m the one to think that I could fix anything and I love counseling, I love talking, and I love sharing. So um yeah some of the people that I’m still in touch with some of them are even sick, some of them are so sick that they, like, have, you know, some of them have HIV. Some of them have drugs, some of them are clean and are doing very well. Because I had that bond and grew up with them, there’s no discrimination I don’t feel like “ohh I’m better” because at one point I fell into that drug situation. There was a point where I was like 22, 22 to 25, I experienced drugs. That was kind of a rough time for me at that moment. And thank God for my mom because she never cast me away and even though I experienced drugs, I was still a working, functional mom, a great mom to my daughter, and as a matter of fact I helped raise my niece as well. And so when I decided enough was a enough for me, you know in terms of drugs, I didn’t have to go- you know how some people go to those AA meetings? For me I didn’t go that route, I didn’t have to go that route which is not a BAD route, it’s just a route that I didn’t go. So from 22 to 25 I became free of drugs and I never looked back. I mean one saturday I had enough, I was invited to my church, and after that pastor had prayed for me, I walked out of that area without looking back, not even the taste of drugs was in me. I had no desire for it ever again. And now i’m pursuing another thing I wanted to be, drug counseling. I think I have a lot to say you know pertaining to drugs and the streets and getting lost to the streets and doing things that I was not proud of. But now today I’m not ashamed of any- all my experiences I had in my life, with that 3 year period with me and drugs, and becoming a young mom, I have no regrets. I’m not ashamed, if I could tell my story to help anyone else, I’m going to. I’m a people person and I love people and I love to dialogue. The way I became clean, others can do the same. So that’s pretty much my story I mean Anna: 10:42 Ok let’s get into some uhh I don’t know this might be more personal actually but can you tell me about your best friend as a kid? Wanda: Ok yes. I had a best friend, her name is Rhonda. Rhonda and I, like I said, were all from the neighborhood, we grew up together, as we got older she went into the service, she came home and she, unfortunately, was hit with drugs really really hard. I lost contact with her after a while. We’ve ran stores you know and once I became clean, you know she was still doing her things and I think at that point the crack epidemic was really really hard so you know a lot of my friends fell into that. Ok so we ran stores when I became clean, then some of my friends that I grew up with no longer wanted to be apart of me because you know I was clean. It hurt me because those were my friends before I did drugs so when they no longer wanted to hang out with me or associate with me, I stayed in the neighborhood when I became clean I stayed in the neighborhood. At one point I didn’t think I could stay in the neighborhood because of the drugs that were still there or my friends that were still there and I thought that if I stayed there I’m not sure that I could stay clean there. But I stayed there I didn’t want to run because if I was gonna be clean, I was gonna be clean wherever I go. So I stayed in the neighborhood and watched my friends, back to Rhonda. The drugs, she had gotten something gross in the drugs that she became sick and I would visit her in the hospital. I never gave up, never gave up on her. She eventually died, she died from her sickness and she never became clean and that hurt my heart so bad. We were friends til the end and there was no judging. When I **review (indiscernible) I forgive you and no matter what you were involved in, because that could’ve been me; If I didn’t become clean, that could’ve been me. So many of my friends that I went to see in the hospital, so many of my friends died from their *blindness, some of them are incarcerated, but some of them are *north from their bindings*(indiscernible). During their sickness they call on me, I would go to visit them and I would pray for them, and I would encourage them. Some of them are clean today and some of them are- It could’ve been me. So I think that I’m one of the- I’m grateful. Cuz I got the same life, started the same life they did, you know, and um like I said, I have a big support system, you know. I have the church, I have my family which is a very big support to me, and I have my child, you know I have my child. And because I had her at a young age, the day I had her, I no longer wanted to hit the streets and run in the streets. I knew I needed to recover I knew I needed to be a mom and thank God my mom was there and she, there were times where she said “oh you could go out” but I didn’t wanna go out so I had a real great support system. Anna: 14:44 ok Okay tell me about your church a little bit Wanda: Okay so at the age of 25 I became a born-again Christian. And remember I told you earlier that I went to a church meeting? and from that church meeting in 1987 when I walked out of that church meeting I walked out a new person. I walked out delivered, free from drugs, free from my past and everything. I became active in the church I was an usher I became Church secretary,I was part of the young adults there were a lot of young adults there And I was part of counseling them. I spoke my testimony And I became this person I don't think it had anything to do with the church Because I was always this compassionate person with thinking that I could save the world. But yeah I am very active in my church. Anna: 15:56 Did you grow up in the church? Wanda: No here’s the thing, my mom had 8 children I was the 7th I'm next to the youngest. So I didn't grow up in the church but my mom back in her days She said her mom took her to church. But growing up we didn't grow up in the church. But there was a family that lived in the building that we lived in And they moved in there heavily involved in church. So we were influenced by that family. And so out of my mom's eight children , me being the 8th, we all started going to church Because I was not the only one in my family that had an issue with drugs. I followed three sisters and a brother into church. So I watched them one by one give their life to the Lord and I found God. From 1987 up until now I've been a born-again believer. Anna: 17:20 Um so can you just tell me, I don’t know, some stories Growing up in your neighborhood and what your neighborhood was like, like take me there? Wanda: Sure so as I said I came to the bronx when I was 2. We grew up on washington ave like i said it was 16 stories high. Ok so my school was the same block where I lived. So to tell you, how, how close knit the neighborhood was. Um, so we moved, when my mom moved from Brooklyn to the Bronx, I was the baby. My mom was pregnant with her last child and in 1964, so I was the baby. So um, to tell you how great the neighborhood and how, how we were close knitted. My mom met people, you know, everybody, it was always, it was friendly. My mom met neighbors and people would come to the house, did not going to do or how you introduced to them so that, you know, I'm your neighbor, I whatever. But my mom, when my mom moved in the projects over the year, they were still building the projects. So I'm not all those practice. So in the, in the neighborhood it's like maybe nine buildings and some of them weren't even built, completed yet. So here my mom moved into the building neighbors, we're not introducing themselves and I don't know if his that was like that anymore, but they will introduce themselves. And, and my mom was, so there was a neighbor in particular that the lady was having babies. She, you know, she was pregnancy with being pregnant. So as she became pregnant, going into the hospital to have her, her children, my mom would, would, um, in the mornings, you know, go to her home and feed and Cook for her children because she had a whole lot of children back, kids back there. And my mom would make sure her children were fed. She would, she would go in there and make them breakfast and help them and send them off for school while she sending my other siblings off for school also. So, um, and then my mom, I remember being like, maybe if I can remember being like eight, we were so close to my school that my mom would walk me to the corner and then she would, cross me across the street and then I would go to go into my class. But, um, we all, there was so many people in, like if I was in the first grade, there was like, maybe I would say about 14 kids that was in first grade in my building alone, you know, so we all grew up together. I have class pictures when I was in first grade, second grade. And if I don't have it, my friends would, when we get together every year, remember I told you in the summer time we get together, we cut back to the neighborhood, we come back with pictures, we'd come back with pictures of each other. When we was in the second grade. I'm like, "oh my God. How did that fits you? I mean, that's me? It's so I would look at the picture and we would look at the class picture and I could pick out everybody and just about everybody we picked out our at that gathering. So just remember the ice cream truck coming in and just remember, um, one of the parents would say, okay, all right, so y'all come on y'all. Y'all gather round. And in that, in that mother, whether it was the mother or the father would buy ice cream for the, for the league, you know, and my mom used to, and we were a family that my mom used to make her ice cream from scratch. So people, the kids that were coming to my mom's house, because we were on the first floor, you could just come into to the grass and come right to my mom's window. So my mom was the type that would feed on people, you know, they were like, miss McAlister can, can I have some chicken or if Mama goes fried chicken the farmer was making potato salad or something like that, they would come to the window. And my mom was like, "get away from here". My mom would always give a, she, she would give. So, um, we were the neighborhoods, I mean, like I said, we fed each other, you know, we revise certain things and we would have parties and parties for when we, as we got older and neighborhood people would come in and, and please, if we did something wrong, oh my God, if, if, if we, we were out there fighting and then we did something wrong. And, but back when I say there's something wrong, it's not like a, uh, a disrespectful, because we all, we all grew up with respect to, you know, we, we respect elderly people, you know, but just something wrong. Like if it's, if it was a fight, um, another person's mother would come in there and chastise us. And then when they chastise us and they take us to our home, forget about it. Then we got it again. You know? So back then it was even the teachers weren't allowed to like hit us with a ruler or a smack us on the, on the hand or something like that. And we, and we dare not go home and tell my mother because my mother would find out what you did and we would get it again. So the school system is different now. Now I, I hear that if you raise your voice at a child, I mean the teacher could come under fire, you know, but back then we didn't play. We didn't play because we have our parents to go home to and the parents that found us in that situation. So we, everybody was friendly. I remember down the block because like I said, when we moved to the, um, to the bronx, we move into one apartment building, uh, projects. And then my mom had eight children, seven and was pregnant with the other one. So we didn't have so many bedrooms. So my mom put in for a transfer, which was on the other side of the school, you know, so, which was like maybe three minutes away in another projects. So we back then, so we, it was great for us and you know, it was like two to a room. So, um, I don't know when we did that, the families that moved and so, and when we moved into that building, then that building wasn't even complete. I mean, it was like my mother was like maybe the sixth person that lived in a 16 story building, you know, so we, we were able to get the first floor and, and we knew people because there were people that was going to school with us there. So we knew, uh, um, children there. So we can, I mean, our neighborhood was a family, you know, it's like each one raised one each one teached one, you know, um, we didn't go without, you know, there was, and being that we were, it was, it was eight of us. My father was in the house, but at some point, and my mom and my dad divorced while I was, I believe I would like to say seven. Yeah, seven. It was Kinda hard on us, but we never went to bed hungry. We never let, you know, we, we had, you know, what, what we needed and not only what we needed, we have, we have some ones too. I mean, even though my mom had the feed, it was eight, eight mouths to feed, um, we didn't go to bed hungry. We, and we had dessert every night, you know, so it was like a treat, you know. And, and even though my mom and my dad divorced, my dad was still in our lives. So when, when they divorced and they separated, he was still getting paid. So there was no friction between me and my mom. They just divorced from whatever their reason. But us, he always, um, he did his thing with us in terms of taking care of us, raising us. We had a, um, we always had a relationship, right? Yeah. Anna: 25:57 Can you tell me a little bit like, did you know that you were in like the projects, was that something that you were aware of or, and did you always call it the projects or did it have a different name? Like what was the- Wanda: Well, the name of the, the, the, the projects that we were living in, it was, it was in the Morrisania area of the Bronx, so it was the Morris houses in the Bronx. So I didn't see as a kid, we didn't see where, "Oh, okay. So y'all live in the projects" and some people growing up and some people probably in my neighborhood, That was the school. Well, no, but you know, as opposed to people growing up in a house or a tenement building, we didn't know. We, we, we were, um, out in the projects and then when I, when we get together like once a year when people come back to the neighborhood and it's called Clairmont day. So that's a day where we all come back into the neighborhood. And like I said, people come from afar, we didn't, some people will say that they were poor. I don't consider us, I've never known if we was poor, I never knew nothing about it because we, we ate well. We were clothed. We were in, you know, just shuffled or anything like that. But um, some people would look about when they look back, they will probably say that. But to me, you know, now I have older sisters. I was second to the youngest, so I didn't, I didn't experience some of the things that other people especially. And then like I said, if we were hungry, my mother always taught us not to go, when you go, when we go to visit our friends, you know, when it's time for dinner, you come home, you know, don't, don't eat in people's home because after all they have a lot of, their parents have a lot of mouths to feed. You know, so you always say no thank you. You know, or when you know it's, it's, it's time for dinner. You come home, you know, but we could have, because everybody was eating, people our families were feeding kids. Cause cause it was a kid, it was a lot of kids there. It was in the building where, you know, like a senior citizen or something like that. Like I said, we, it was, it was 16 stories and there was like, there was about 12, um, 12 apartments on this floor and we grew up, in a lot of those families had, they were big families. So, um, no we didn't. Um, in terms of us knowing that it was a projects, no, we didn't. We didn't think, no way about it as a matter of fact we were more happier. We were a happy family. It was a happy neighborhood. It was a happy and healthy neighborhood. Anna: [28:55] You mentioned a little bit before that it's not the same now. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like how it's physically changed, like in the way it looks and then how the vibe is changed? Wanda: Okay. So, um, as we started now, like I would even say now this, this, the change started taking place I would say about maybe 17, 18 years ago. Okay. Um, and his wife. Okay. So we had, um, um, there was, there was a, uh, there was a worker from the housing projects in, in, in, in the building that kept the, um, he was hired, he was a, what do you call it? The maintenance man. He, he, he was there to keep the building clean. He mopped the floors, he kept the building clean along with us. You know, we weren't raised like throwing stuff out the window. And now I'm going to get to that because that's what's going on now. So each, each janitor or how for whatever you may call it, kept the place to clean, that janitor as well as our family. You know, we know that on, on, on each floor there was something that they called him Senioreta. We would take our bag, would take our garbage and throw it down in there, so the buildings were clean, you know, we could walk through the building, we could sit on the bench without, without any drama. You know, like I said, we would play in, in the front of the building no drama. So now, and as we got older, we started, people started moving out of the building new people started coming in the building and you know how they say "there goes the building"? They weren't keeping up. Like, you know, like we, we were trained to keep up and we, and, and we always, like I said that and then when the maintenance man, we had one maintenance man that was there for such a long time. But when he retired, but then again he lived in the building, but when he retired, the next worker, they didn't do as much as in terms of people clean. And then as people started to move off the building than other visitors start coming into the building and they were throwing their trash anywhere and stuff like that. So in terms of the building going down, that's the way it, where it started going down, you know, there was a designated area where for incentive we want, and my mother was giving away from it or throwing furniture away. There was a designated area around the building where we set our furniture aside for the trash people to cart. People started throwing pampers out the window, food out the window. Instead of going, instead of going to throw in their trash and incinerator, they were throwing it out the window. And then like again, when, when, when the original, we call them the original, I was one of the original. So when when the originals started to move, we get new people come in and they wasn't following suit the way we, we, we did. So, and then there was some people that, some of my friends didn't want to go in the building anymore, but I still, you know, I went because, you know, I, I'm, I'm used to that. But what, when, and then my mom and dad and my mom after work, um, there was, there was a, um, there was benches on in front of the building. They, they start the housing that they started to remove the benches. So there was no more places for us to sit on and moms and dads and stuff like that. So, um, it started to become really, really, really bad, you know, and in terms of when I used to, and my mom just recently died two years ago. From there, like I said, from 1965 to 2015. So my mom was there for 50 years, 50 plus years, you know, so, and when I would go back and forth to visit, you know, I'm seeing all these new people, the faces, I met my husband, we grew up together in the same building. So we grew up as young kids there. So when I would go back and forth to visit my mom, um, there was some people that were still there and they would look out for my mom, you know, so cause my mom was at, like I said, the original, but as the originals start to move, it's not the same anymore in terms of you don't know who walking in the building, who's going to be there or may attack you or something right there. But we didn't have that problem. It's becoming a problem. Anna: [34:02] What does it feel like to go back now? Like what is that experience like? I mean, when you're going back to visit your mom, I would think that there's still that tie there. But when you go back to the neighborhood now, like how does it feel? Wanda: Oh, back. Like I said, um, I go back and, since I drive through, that was home for me. That's where my life, my youth, you know, I was, you know, from, from my little girl youth and young adult was there. So I reminisce. I have a lot of memories. Fun. Well, I have many fond memories of my childhood, you know, and, um, when I go back, I'm always reminiscing, you know, I looked in the window over there where my mom, where were we, where we lived, and I should I scroll by when I'm driving, I, I slowly drive by. And sometimes I look, I used to look to see if I see people that I know, you know, that stopped because every now and then and when I do go by, I don't see nobody, you know, and, and, and I used to because a lot of since, I said, it's change people is there's new faces, new families and stuff like that. But I look in the park where I used to play and then, um, when my, my friends that, that, that was not, um, that did not grow up here. When we come in town, I take them over there and I slowly, I'm driving, sometimes I used to get out the car and I said, you see that? That's where I used to play and I was showing him a scar on my leg. You see this scar? Because I did, I was playing bear right here, there, the monkey bar. It's like a tour. I would take my friends on the tour there. So now when I go there, it's just not the same thing. All of us, the family, the originals are gone, you know. So I just look and I, and I stopped. I slowly stopped going. Like I said, my mom died in 2015 so I don't go over there a couple of times I've went back, and this is funny because my brother, my brother feels a bit, we feel, I have seven, I feel the same way. So my brother went over after my mom died, so he knocked on the door and down. Mind you when we moved there in 64 we were the first people there, up until 19 up until 2015 so now my brother knocked on the door to introduce himself. We lived here, we used to live here. But you know, there's a lot of reminiscing, but it's not the same thing. I wouldn’t want to live no other place right there. Anna: [36:44] But do you know who's there now, like in your old apartment? Wanda: Well, my brother knocked on the door. I did. There's a Hispanic family that's there, you know, um, and, and you know what an even before my mom passed away and moved from because my mom had to move out of there because it has five bedrooms and it was just my mom and my youth and my niece. So there was no way that they can justify staying in and the five bedrooms and I understood, even though it was hard on my mom and it was hard on us because that's what she was there for 15 years, but she had to move because there's other families that needed the bigger apartment. So, and my mom realized it too, but, but 50 years it was hard for her too. So she moved and she moved in the same area, same Morrisania projects, but just a smaller apartment. So it was still, we were still in the area. So the building where my mom moved in, I went to school with people there too. So we was, we was still in the community, you know, it's just that my mom had to move into a smaller place, so I would go, this is my mom and I remember people, I mean, you know, that was there that I was still there, so our community was, the crime, there was no forget about it. What is crime, you know? we didn't know nothing about crime, you know, we didn't know nothing about shooting. We didn't know anything about rape or drugs and stuff like that, you know, until we got older and even when we got older, the crime started. But um, not as much. And then to be, to be honest with you, the building that my mom moved in, that was one of the, um, they have more children, you know, and so there was my oldest sisters and them. Like I said, they watched other buildings being built. So we, we, I, I liked the fact that I could say we were originals from the Morrisania projects. And I don't have, I wouldn't want to live nowhere that, that was where my teaching got. I got, I got taught, I mean, I knew that it was okay for, for like I said, if I did something bad, another family would look out and bring us home and, and, and you know, and talk to the, and talk to the parents for us. So my mom, my mom had eight kids, but she birthed eight kids, but everybody in the neighborhood was, was, was, was her kid, you know, and that's how it works. Anna: [39:44] Can you speak a little bit to what you think started the neighborhood, like changing? Like why did it change? Like what was the crux of that? Wanda: You talking about changing for the worst when it, okay. Um, yes, because I was there, I lived there. I didn't move out of the neighborhood. And so I didn't move out of the neighborhood until 1991. That's when I got married and moved out. But like I said, um, the family member, my family, and there was a lot of the families, so they have, um, I remember when the crack epidemic came and because, um, my memory of it was, um, okay, I got saved in 1987. My memory of it was probably 1983, 84 because remember I told you that I experienced some drugs but it wasn't crack. So I saw, I saw, I was smoking weed, but the friends that I would hang with, the friends that I was hanging out with that smoke weed, now they begin going to crack. Okay. So when they began going to crack, um, they left, they, I saw them leaving, you know, so that they would granted, I would see him throughout the day, but then at some point they started experiencing crack. when crack came into the neighborhood crack came hard. And the neighborhood and it hit, um, people that, um, you would have never ever have thought would be on any type of drugs. probably wasn't even smoking a cigarette, doing anything. But once they, once they indulge in it and tried it, if you will, then they became hooked. I've, I mean, there were times where people that I grew up with and people that knew my mom, they would knock on my mom's door to sell. I got this to sell, Ms McAllister, can you want to buy this? And Mom was like, get out of here. Y'All know you're not supposed to be on that stuff. Why you selling? You know, my mom was like, no, you know the type that, no, don't, don't, don't bring that here and don't try to sell that and you need to get this stuff together. You know, she was taking that, tried to steer you in the right direction, but crack didn't have no respect to a person. When, when people started smoking crack, like I said, I was shocked. It hurts my heart when my friends would leave me and, and, and I'm like, Y'all smoking this? Just what the white, and they was like, yeah, but I, I tried it. I tried it once cause I wanted to see what was it about. I said, never again. Never again. And I see people, what, what were losing jobs. Then you had people that I grew up with. Then they started selling, they started using selling crack. I lost so many people to crack. I watched people do things and, and, and become, become a whole nother person because of the crack. And um, it was horrible. It was really horrible. And I have friends now. And I have, I mean when I say good friends, I have friends who dropped out of school, dropped out of college, um, had their children taken away from them, you know, um, got killed, you know, um, the, the doing life and doing a lot of time in prison because of crack. So the crack epidemic is really, it really is. It was really bad than the neighborhood and not, and not only down the block, you know, all around the bronx and different names and different names of projects, that was really. Anna: [43:29] Um, were you, this might have been before your time because honestly I can't remember the dates, the fires in the Bronx. Was that something that you experienced or was that before your family sort of moved to the area? Wanda: Well. Um, no, I don't I didn't experience fire, I've heard of fires. Um, yeah, as a matter of fact, there was, like I said, there was something, there was a fire, some that's holding the webster, the Butler houses. There was a huge fire there where children got burnt and died in the fire, but fire, see and fire. I'm really, no, not in my neighborhood. No, no. Anna: [44:21] You just, you mentioned your daughter at the beginning and sort of how her like being present in your life really sort of kept you grounded. Can you talk a bit about her and like raising her as a young woman and what that was like? Sure. Okay. So, um, okay. And I had her at 16, um, still, you know, I hadn't finished high school. My mom was a blessing to me because she allowed me to finish high school where as some moms would have said, okay, you have a baby, you got to take care of your baby. So my mom and I remember there was another child, my daughter and my niece are eight days apart. So they were still babies. So my mom allows us to go, me to go, well both of us to finish high school. So, um, at that point, um, okay. So as she got older she was my pride and joy. I, you know, I did everything I could for her as a child. And um, later on I be, when I went, when I begin to remember, I told you early on that for three years I was on drugs and um, I had many close calls with her because my mind was so, you know, out of touch with drugs. One in particular that scared me, something terrible. And um, I was at, I had a friend that lived in another right across the street from me in the project. So I was getting high. I was in my getting high stage. So, um, my friend lived on a 19th floor, because it was one building that she'll go into the area where they went up to 20, you know, um, so my friend was in the 19th floor, so my friend and I went to go buy some drugs. And so now we come back, we, we approach walking back to the building because I left my daughter with my friend's daughter and my daughter had to have been about maybe seven or something like that. Seven Anna: [46:22] my phone rang and our recording stops so Wanda is going to start back from where we just were and we'll continue. Wanda: Okay. So, um, like I was saying that my girlfriend lives in the um, on the 19th floor across the street. So her and I were going to buy some drugs and I left, my daughter was about maybe seven, I like to say seven at the time. And her daughter was about 14, so we left them, we went to go buy some drugs. When on our way coming back, I happen to look up at the window. I look, you know, and here is my daughter. I'm looking up to my daughter hanging out the window. Okay. And my daughter was, like I said, about seven, she all of it from her waist. I'm watching her hanging out of the window, so I'm in a panic. I'm like, oh my goodness, my daughter is hanging out the window. So I run to the building and my friends and I run to the building that we have to wait for the elevator. Cause I told you the 19th floor. So people in the building, there was two elevators with for that, for that particular reason. So many people were waiting to get on the elevator. So I'm, I'm in a frantic panic because my daughter is hanging out the window. So by the time I get up there, um, her daughter opens the door and I'm watching my daughter hanging out, the window. And the only thing that saved her was because the window window was halfway, um, um, open. So that part of the windows was able to save her. So, um, I get in the apartment and I grab her. I didn't, I didn't want to frantic her, so I was able to grab her out the window. So there was so, and because my, because my mind was so at that point moment on drugs. So there was a couple of close calls that I had with her and the span that I was doing drugs. Other than that in terms of raising her, nurturing her, taking her to her appointments, you know, to screen her to teaching her, she had all of that. So the drug didn't alter my mind when it comes to that, I would, I would, I consider myself to be a great mom and my mom would have said it's also. So she came out very well, you know, she did well. But um, like I said, for that three years of my life, there was a couple of close calls with drugs and I was eating when I was on drugs, I went by drugs in the neighborhood. You know, sometimes I didn't have to go out of the neighborhood. And some of the friends that I knew, one in particular, he was an older guy and what and what he, and he was an older guy, but he was in drugs. He used to sell drugs. So when I, when I went to him to try to find drugs, he would look at me and he said, get out of here. You're too young, y'all know you're not supposed to be on that. So he, you know, there was a time where even though they were, the drug dealers had respect for who they sold drugs to. So I was like a little sister to him, so he would never sell me drugs and stuff like that. And then the, and then there was a time where my sister's friend, my oldest sister's friend, um, she saw me, she was like, well, you did, you got caught up in the drugs? And she was like, I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna tell your Momma, tell your sister. So it was a thing that we, you know, people didn't sell drugs that there was still a level of respect of who you sold drugs, you know, um, I know, you know, get out of here. You can't, you know, I'm not going to sell you drugs. So it was like that. But then, um, then it came out, some point came to a point where they didn't care drug had no, no, no it was no, they would've sold to your, your mother if she wanted to buy and then they were mothers, it got to the point that they were all mothers. They were mothers that were respectable parents was reduced to drugs. You know, people who, like I said, they sold anything that they could think you know, for just to get the drugs. So now and so and later on, fast forward into later on the people, some of the originals, um, grandkids, you know, cause cause we started having kids and their kids started coming up selling drugs and that's where the disrespecting came. there was a level of disrespect because now, now my mom used to say for instance, my mom would change your pampers, would change your mothers pampers and how and you and you disrespected me like that? So it came to the point that the generations where the generation has changed, you know. My generation, we wouldn't dare do anything like that. But my daughter's generation, it was another, it was a whole different thing. And those were the ones that were, that they didn't have no fear. They would sell drugs, they would, they would disrespect a mother or disrespect the grandmother. And it was no respect that, at that point. So when I get back to the back, that as far as going back into the neighborhood, I see people now and I, and I, I'm not as, I'm not as comfortable. If I had to go from the guilty, I would go when I'm not as comfortable, like, like, you know, it raises the eyebrow who's coming in because I don't know, anybody anymore. You know, this is a whole new generation. Anna: [51:55] Can you tell me about your neighborhood, where you live now and sort of what the energy is like there? Wanda: Yes. Now I'm in the neighborhood. Um, I'm on a whole different side of the Bronx and I'm on, it's called the soundview area. Now the soundview area is, you know, I, I'm kind of blessed to live in a Condo, you know, my husband and I run for profit. So we're in a condo but down like, like two, three blocks down there are the projects again, you know, and I think I like to think that they call it the south, I know it's a southy area. I'm not sure of the name of the projects but it's bad as well. It's bad as well. But in my neighborhood I have no problem. I have a, I mean, and my side of the, my block, it's, it's really great. You know, I'm retired. Police officers retired people, you know, they're there. But if I go, like I said a couple of blocks down, you may hear some shootings. Anna: [53:00] Do you have the like same community kind of feel that you had when you were growing up? Wanda: No, no, no I don't. Um, no. My, I would go by where I'm living now as opposed to where I grew up at, even though, um, even though that there's different, uh, um, the neighborhood has changed and it's different tenants living, I still will be comfortable in my neighborhood, my own neighborhood as opposed to my new, neighborhood. Anna: [53:31] Um, why do you, I don't know. I feel like this is like a common theme that like happens when I talk to anyone about who is older than me and lived like longer ago where like the community feeling, what's something that permeated like a lot of different neighborhoods and now it's not so much that. Do you have any thoughts as to why that might be or what the deal is with that? Wanda: I think it's because, um, you know, when I think, I really think several reasons. Here's one, um, back in my era and my days there was respect. You know, we respect, you know, each other and we respect our elders. We, we, we respect seniors and the whole bit, I think this new generation now there's, there's a lack of respect, you know, and I, and I think that, and I have to look at the parents, um, um, for that because, um, like my daughters, um, she, my daughters is 38. For instance, my daughter's 38. I take a 38 year old parent now who has children, and that their children did something wrong, That 38 year old parents, she's going to write. She, she's going to want to fight. She's going to want to believe her child. She's going to want to go through that with that. Where's that? In my age, you know, we, we, we, we tend to have more respect. It's a lack of respect. And I believe not only is the lack of respect, and I believe that's some of them. That's probably, if they're still on drugs and their minds still altered by the drug, then their children, I know people that I grew up with, what their children are selling drugs. And so, depends on the parent. you know, and, and not only is it okay with parents, parents, the adults are doing the same thing. I think it's how we were raised and your morals and you are raised with morals and respect. You know, that's, that's my, one of my theories about it. Anna: [55:41] So to sort of close, what should people who aren't familiar with your neighborhood or people who are listening to this from way off in the middle of Arizona or Texas or whatever, what should they know? What's like the most important takeaway? Wanda: [55:58] Um, in terms of the neighborhood and in terms of the neighborhood? Disintegrating? Anna: [56:06] Neighborhood disintegrating or just like, what do you want people to know from after listening to this? What should they think about? Wanda: Okay. I would like for people to know that growing up in the projects, it's not the worst thing in the world because what people, um, for instance, I have some cousins that I, that I'm getting to know, I've never known them and we just, we were just talking and knowing each other and they live from New Orleans. So when I tell the story about where I lived in my, and the progress that they are, the first thing they like "you in the projects? You live on top of each other and everyone's living on top of each other?" Right. And, and the, here they are, they've never known anything about projects and projects to them it's like a two story, maybe a two story condo to them. And so, so they'll look at me like we were less fortunate. I don't think, I don't, I don't think living in the projects, it's someone that I wouldn't consider myself less fortunate. Fortunate. Here's why. Because there was so many families there and back in those days we all taught each other and look out for each other. I mean, there's a lot of great things that, that I, I'm, I'm a product of the projects and I consider myself doing very fairly well, thank God. You know, so there's a lot of good people that's coming out of projects that people, I think probably just get a bad rap because, um, like again, because there's so many buildings that did, they're tall. Where's that in different states. They don't have these sorts of a tall building in certain states. It's like a, a, a office or something like that or trump tower, you know, and for, and so they, they think that surely, you know, um, they, they, they low class, you know, they, they low budgets and low class and they don't, didn't have any care. And that's why they had to live in the projects. But many successful people came out, you know, and I'm very, very happy where I came out. I'm, I'm, I'm a proud, I called myself a PJ, project kid. And I'm very happy. My mom taught us great morals, you know, and, and it was not just because the stigma of a project, people think that is drugs, everybody's drugs and low class. Not Everybody who came out of the projects, you know, got caught up in the drug epidemic. And like I said, there's a lot of good people that came out of the projects. It's just, I believe that is how you're taught how you were raised and your morals and stuff like that. Um, I can't, I'm from the old school and my mom taught us, you know, we were grounded, we respect, you know, um, we've learned to appreciate what we had and what we didn't have you know, so no, I don't, I don't, I don't see, I mean, you can live in new and you couldn't live up there. You can be up or medical upperclass and drugs is drugs. drugs don't have no, no name to it. They don't have, no, no, occupation, you know, no color no creed or anything like that. You, you see a lot of rich, famous people and, and, and, and, and they had it all. And, and a lot of them have, you know, fell into drugs. So don't, um, the stigma of the projects, drugs you know, that's, that's a bad, it's a bad rap because like I said, you could live in the White House. You can live in a mansion. Can you imagine what goes on in there, in times of drugs? Look read the news paper, but see, follow you. You know what I mean? You see a lot of people that's more, that's more fortunate monetarily wise. Crack hit them too crack has no name or no nation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource An Oral history with Wanda McAllister Transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Collaborate or Collapse Subject The topic of the resource The Importance of Collaboration in Music Description An account of the resource An examination of the creative and collaborative culture of the Bronx, and how it allowed for the formation of todays more popular genres of music - specifically Hip Hop. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carmelo Castro Netsky Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare Website A resource comprising of a web page or web pages and all related assets ( such as images, sound and video files, etc. ). Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvenT_DUH-I&app=desktop Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sami Yusuf - Ya Mustafa | Live At Wembley Arena Description An account of the resource Tariq Snare plays drums on stage with Sami Yusuf Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Awakening Records Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Collaborate or Collapse Subject The topic of the resource The Importance of Collaboration in Music Description An account of the resource An examination of the creative and collaborative culture of the Bronx, and how it allowed for the formation of todays more popular genres of music - specifically Hip Hop. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carmelo Castro Netsky Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare Website A resource comprising of a web page or web pages and all related assets ( such as images, sound and video files, etc. ). Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t01vqp-LoU0&app=desktop Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Coaching Clinic Drum & Percussion, Todd Tariq Snare (Native Deen) at Jatiwangi Art Factory Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jatiwangi Art factory Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Collaborate or Collapse Subject The topic of the resource The Importance of Collaboration in Music Description An account of the resource An examination of the creative and collaborative culture of the Bronx, and how it allowed for the formation of todays more popular genres of music - specifically Hip Hop. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carmelo Castro Netsky Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare Website A resource comprising of a web page or web pages and all related assets ( such as images, sound and video files, etc. ). Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEurqdxnejI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tariq Snare and The Morrisania Band Project Description An account of the resource A brief oral history of Tariq Snare's musical career including footage from a jam session with The Morrisania Band Project. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carmelo Castro Netsky Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare, Mike Abney, Elissa Carmona https://melrosestories.org/files/original/b52c823a131e62d295b55d1bcfaaf4fe.PNG f13afd9e80b811b6496c9e96f0676563 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Collaborate or Collapse Subject The topic of the resource The Importance of Collaboration in Music Description An account of the resource An examination of the creative and collaborative culture of the Bronx, and how it allowed for the formation of todays more popular genres of music - specifically Hip Hop. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carmelo Castro Netsky Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flyer Description An account of the resource Flyer promoting Tariq's workshop in Baghdad Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare https://melrosestories.org/files/original/0a899b662b20dd16745ffb4511cf9418.PNG eadc226b2bc4678b8f55a9cbc4c12cd6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Collaborate or Collapse Subject The topic of the resource The Importance of Collaboration in Music Description An account of the resource An examination of the creative and collaborative culture of the Bronx, and how it allowed for the formation of todays more popular genres of music - specifically Hip Hop. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carmelo Castro Netsky Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Group Photo at a drumming workshop Description An account of the resource Group photo at a drumming workshop. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare https://melrosestories.org/files/original/3f3ba4bb3e7d8da4d3f6255dbb70629a.PNG ca87745cc81d27374e7a1aa29b089c2e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Collaborate or Collapse Subject The topic of the resource The Importance of Collaboration in Music Description An account of the resource An examination of the creative and collaborative culture of the Bronx, and how it allowed for the formation of todays more popular genres of music - specifically Hip Hop. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carmelo Castro Netsky Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Kids Can Play Hip Hop Description An account of the resource Tariq's self published book. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare https://melrosestories.org/files/original/bbbfd4f0ea33db139784ef146c67a93b.PNG c9a38a9ab8eec01fdc56a9d185fb078b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Collaborate or Collapse Subject The topic of the resource The Importance of Collaboration in Music Description An account of the resource An examination of the creative and collaborative culture of the Bronx, and how it allowed for the formation of todays more popular genres of music - specifically Hip Hop. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carmelo Castro Netsky Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Embassy Letter Description An account of the resource A letter from Assistant Cultural Affairs Officer to Embassy of Iraq on Tariq's behalf. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare https://melrosestories.org/files/original/7de303cd03eb24491371f736240f5840.JPG 9f5209c2bb119d67598e45b63e291e48 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Collaborate or Collapse Subject The topic of the resource The Importance of Collaboration in Music Description An account of the resource An examination of the creative and collaborative culture of the Bronx, and how it allowed for the formation of todays more popular genres of music - specifically Hip Hop. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carmelo Castro Netsky Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Group Photo at workshop Description An account of the resource Group Photo at Workshop Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tariq Snare